tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post3637830421679345448..comments2023-12-24T12:58:27.328+02:00Comments on Mark Cogitates: Transcript: ‘Controversial’ Cardinal Napier InterviewAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07098007440868887687noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-2366408002182207862013-06-20T11:22:05.901+02:002013-06-20T11:22:05.901+02:00It is very tough task that transcripts the controv...It is very tough task that transcripts the controversial things. Very sensible and smartly work are necessary to transcript any controversial data. Its very hectic, well very nicely you have to describe all conversation of CN and SN.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.tech-synergy.com/Tech-synergy/interviewtranscription.php" rel="nofollow">Interview transcription</a>Interview transcriptionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-45701365406064454772013-03-18T19:58:58.926+02:002013-03-18T19:58:58.926+02:00Irrespective of the culprit being mentally or psyc...Irrespective of the culprit being mentally or psychologically ill, I would prosecute him first under the Law of the country. <br /><br /><br />Secondly, the culprit must be charged under Canon Law - no cover-ups and excuses. <br /><br /><br />Thirdly, the treatment of the crime/offense needs no excuse but must be dealt with so as to be preventative of re-occurrence.. <br /><br /><br />The Church does not need "cover-ups" so that such crimes can continue by shifting the problem from dioceses to dioceses; country to country.. <br /><br /><br />In my opinion , leaders like Cardinal Napier should get real in the public square and begin to condemn this type of abuse which harms the victim and which makes the Church a point of scandal, discrediting the Gospel and makes a mockery of the goodwill of ordinary people.<br /><br /><br />Finally, clergy, bishops and cardinals should not be able to hide behind their "illness" while indeed they may be faking their "innocence", fooling the world at large. .romano5568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-54357804456848594752013-03-18T19:16:21.979+02:002013-03-18T19:16:21.979+02:00I like the great conversation happening here. I ag...I like the great conversation happening here. I agree with the idea of media training for the clergy. Cardinal Napier was having an ordinary conversation which should be read in full. The media is looking for a few words to make headlines. <br /><br />It wouldn't have made it to any media if the headline was; "Cardinal Napier said he is not qualified to make judgement on which priest should stand trial for child abuse". Because summing the interview up, that's what he said.John Nyamundanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-21674180711410272892013-03-18T17:03:02.575+02:002013-03-18T17:03:02.575+02:00Honest *people* would seek the truth.Honest *people* would seek the truth.Jacques Rousseauhttp://www.synapses.co.za/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-8231480310669887512013-03-18T16:53:35.538+02:002013-03-18T16:53:35.538+02:00Honest athiests would seek the truthHonest athiests would seek the truthDavid Blythnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-83334079301084639712013-03-18T16:52:02.726+02:002013-03-18T16:52:02.726+02:00The interview was about the conclave. The intervi...The interview was about the conclave. The interviewer steered it to paedophiliaDavid Blythnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-35934354220857975172013-03-18T14:20:04.060+02:002013-03-18T14:20:04.060+02:00Great comment. Well said. Thanks.Great comment. Well said. Thanks.Mark Nelhttp://www.marknelza.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-21130899013348596832013-03-18T14:13:25.622+02:002013-03-18T14:13:25.622+02:00Clearly I have misunderstood your first comment.Clearly I have misunderstood your first comment.Mark Nelhttp://www.marknelza.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-85741828101312361182013-03-18T13:55:47.263+02:002013-03-18T13:55:47.263+02:00He is clumsy! No dispute about that. At the same t...He is clumsy! No dispute about that. At the same time Stephen Nolan is deliberately being obtuse. <br /><br />I definitely get that Cardinal Napier believes that anyone who abuses a child has committed a criminal offence. [15:09]<br /><br />What Cardinal Napier is trying to say and clearly getting frustrated at Nolan for continually misunderstanding him, which in turn is making him even more clumsy, is that it is not for him to judge whether a child abuser is a paedophile - someone with the paedophilia disorder. He is also saying that someone who has themselves been abused is clearly damaged and medical professionals need to assess if this person, because of that childhood damage, is or is not criminally culpable. They need to assess if that person has as a result of the abuse received been driven to commit abuse and to what extent that person was in control of their actions. This needs to be judged by professionals and they must then determine if that person, has grounds to claim that he is not criminally culpable for his actions. It would be disingenuous to believe anything else.<br /><br />When one starts out hell bent on finding something sinister, you will find it. <br /><br />Sadly Cardinal Napier is right in one of his twitter feeds. He should have shown no understanding for those people who have themselves been abused and as a consequence been driven to committing child abuse. He should have simply been totally politically correct and branded everyone criminals. Forget live, forgiveness, understanding of people circumstances. Just row the whole damn lot in jail and be done with it. Then he wouldn't be in hot water, or maybe not. Highly likely that would have been turned around to demonstrate the lack of compassion of the Church.<br /><br />To hell with everyone I say. I know that Cardinal Napier does believe child abuse is criminal and that it sickens him. I also know that he thinks compassionately about everyone and the problem is that the world cannot and will not comprehend this compassion.Mark Nelhttp://www.marknelza.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-21153920758141550072013-03-18T13:40:31.906+02:002013-03-18T13:40:31.906+02:00…I fully agree that our bishops are not up to date...…I fully agree that our bishops are not up to date in the<br />art of effective communications like the politicians and because of this, we often find ourselves fouling up in manipulative interviews and on blog sites… as our case in point with paedophilia. Not that paedophilia does not occur within other denominations or religions, in fact, if truth be told; we are among the lowest percentage! Nevertheless, a crime is still a crime, irrespectively of the numbers. It’s just that paedophilia and financial mismanagement is the buzz word with Catholicism. Yes, the Church a mixture of both saints and sinners has in the past erred in handling these tragic situations and pastorally blundered in management with regard to both the victim and the perpetrator… The victim always must be shown priority, this unfortunately did not come across evidently in the interview, and that professionals from within the church and that of the medical institution as a rule manage the treatment of the perpetrator (a priest in this case) and not the hierarchy or the sentencing if criminally liable the judicial establishment then kicks in. In her defence the human element of the Church is trying, perhaps for some never enough… history will judge us on that!+ padre maxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-40578365136931821522013-03-18T13:24:13.318+02:002013-03-18T13:24:13.318+02:00It seems to me that the Cardinal was clear enough:...It seems to me that the Cardinal was clear enough: paedophile priests who were abused in their childhood are not to be considered criminal when they abuse minors in their turn. The law (and, dare I say it, common sense) says different. Also that such priests should not be handed over to the authorities if the victims or their families decide not to prosecute. The Church's own procedural code - quoted by the Cardinal himself - says different.<br /><br /><br />One must respect Cardinal Napier as a prelate of the Church, and I do so respect him, but I don't think obfuscating this issue is going to help anybody. It would really be better if he admitted he was wrong. It was only one interview after all. Not a train smash.Justin Swantonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-54297961014908298522013-03-18T12:37:54.668+02:002013-03-18T12:37:54.668+02:00Hi Mark. I read your other post and listened to th...Hi Mark. I read your other post and listened to the interview in full. I am always careful before I say anything and you know where I stand concerning the Church. What do you mean "He is not saying what you attribute to him?" I did not even mention him.Norman Servaisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-47867978320603633442013-03-18T12:18:34.574+02:002013-03-18T12:18:34.574+02:00Norman take a look at my other post. You missing t...Norman take a look at my other post. You missing the Cardinal's point. He is not saying what you attribute to him.Mark Nelhttp://www.marknelza.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-37618109422297453562013-03-18T12:05:34.879+02:002013-03-18T12:05:34.879+02:00The heinous act committed by a pedophile
constitu...The heinous act committed by a pedophile <br />constitutes a gravely criminal act. We do not need the opinion of medical <br />experts to tell us that. Luke 17:2 is clear <br />enough. This is deeply disturbing.Norman Servaisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-12125465367073811312013-03-18T09:45:13.121+02:002013-03-18T09:45:13.121+02:00Thanks JacquesThanks JacquesMark Nelhttp://www.marknelza.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-9964921027044067862013-03-18T08:58:22.817+02:002013-03-18T08:58:22.817+02:00Some support from an unlikely corner - as an athei...Some support from an unlikely corner - as an atheist, I'm rather disappointed in the way some people seem to be bending over backwards to interpret Napier in the worst possible light: http://www.skepticink.com/freesociety/cardinal-napier-on-paedophilia/Jacques Rousseauhttp://www.synapses.co.za/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-68422086418640492082013-03-18T07:30:31.785+02:002013-03-18T07:30:31.785+02:00Cardinal Napier was clearer than most give him cre...Cardinal Napier was clearer than most give him credit for. See this: http://marknelza.blogspot.com/2013/03/cardinal-napier-sacrificed.htmlMark Nelhttp://www.marknelza.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-24995476598020311932013-03-18T07:29:03.006+02:002013-03-18T07:29:03.006+02:00Exactly right David. Cardinal Napier said as much....Exactly right David. Cardinal Napier said as much. For a summary see this post in which it is clarified that Cardinal Napier did say so: http://marknelza.blogspot.com/2013/03/cardinal-napier-sacrificed.htmlMark Nelhttp://www.marknelza.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-50460820943713987632013-03-18T07:15:39.568+02:002013-03-18T07:15:39.568+02:00Paedophia is an illness where the person has an ur...Paedophia is an illness where the person has an urge to molest children. <br />A paedophile who molests children commits a crime. <br />The molestation of children is a criminal offence.David Blythnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-60276449175387318292013-03-18T00:00:53.515+02:002013-03-18T00:00:53.515+02:00I think the Cardinal may have been a little clumsy...I think the Cardinal may have been a little clumsy in his handling of Nolan's questions. I agree that he may not have been as crystal clear in conveying his message. I think he should have been more forceful with Nolan. Often he asked Nolan a question which Nolan avoided and which may have helped the Cardinal to make his point more clearly. I suppose its an art to being interviewed and someone like Nolan does it for a living. Politicians get given extensive training in communication. Maybe our bishops need that too.Mark Nelhttp://www.marknelza.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-55949478852872997252013-03-17T23:32:28.621+02:002013-03-17T23:32:28.621+02:00Cardinal Napier has made a statement on this inter...Cardinal Napier has made a statement on this interview which can be read at this address: http://sacns.scripturelink.net/2013/03/durban-cardinal-wilfred-fox-napier.html<br /><br />The statement gives the Church's official approach, which is clear enough. The Cardinal's own position is perhaps a little less so. It seems that he still cannot affirm that paedophilia is a crime nor that paedophile priests should be handed over to the law regardless of whether their victims lay charges against them or not.Justin Swantonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-37932319043624917202013-03-17T22:41:29.225+02:002013-03-17T22:41:29.225+02:00Sorry Mark. I am a Catholic living in Durban, so t...Sorry Mark. I am a Catholic living in Durban, so this is with all due respect, but the Cardinal has launched a lead balloon. There are three crucial points he did not make in this interview:<br /><br />1. Paedophilia is a criminal offence. This applies whether a paedophile priest has had a traumatic childhood or not. That bit about possibly being unfit for trial simply doesn't wash. Someone unfit for trial is someone who is certifiable - who needs to be locked up in a looney bin - and that is certainly not the case with paedophile priests. Having been abused in their own childhood may be an attenuating circumstance, but it does not remove the responsibility the law considers sufficient to commit a crime.<br /><br />2. The hierarchy did mishandle this issue in the recent past. Priests were shielded by their bishops, shipped from parish to parish, and effective steps were taken only when the thing blew sky high legally and in the media. This is something that has to be admitted. It's not the first time in her history that the Church has had to reform her own ranks, and under external compulsion too. Compare the papacy before and after the Sacca de Roma.<br /><br />3. The Church no longer refrains from handing paedophile clergy to the law simply because the victims do not prosecute. In fact, one has a moral obligation to let justice take its course when a crime has been committed, unless a really serious circumstance intervenes, such as a confessor obliged to keep silence after learning of a crime in the confessional. Legal justice exists for a reason. As the Cardinal himself admitted, the success rate in rehabilitating paedophile priests is so low that one rehab centre in the US urges such priests to be permanently removed from ministry. Full stop. A thief, a rapist, or a robber need to be taken out of circulation a) to remove a serious threat to their fellow men, b) to enable them hopefully to reform themselves and c) to demonstrate that such deeds will not be tolerated in society. This applies just as much to paedophilia.<br /><br />But the biggest omission from this interview is some sort of affirmation of how grave an offence paedophilia is, especially coming from a priest. Christ had grave things to say about those who cause one of his little ones to sin. Nowhere does the Cardinal express - as other members of the hierarchy have expressed - his deep regret for what has been done to the most vulnerable members of the laity. It is this omission more than anything else that will bring the storm down on him.Justin Swantonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6267813899560041797.post-52789711413596998142013-03-17T22:37:28.927+02:002013-03-17T22:37:28.927+02:00wow what a creep! SN makes me want to throw up!wow what a creep! SN makes me want to throw up!Www.catholicalcoholic.comnoreply@blogger.com